[Ledger-smb-users] LedgerSMB 1.5.6 released

Discussion:

Erik Huelsmann

2017-04-09 18:59:10 UTC

The LedgerSMB development team is happy to announce yet another new
version of its open source ERP and accounting application. This release
contains the following fixes and improvements:

Changelog for 1.5.6

- Fix syntax error in LaTeX templates for printed documents (Erik H)
- Refactor filter pages for income statement and balance sheet (Erik H)
- Fix reversal of payments against non-eca-default AR/AP account (Erik
H, #2558 <https://github.com/ledgersmb/LedgerSMB/issues/2558>)

Erik H is Erik Huelsmann

The release can be installed with Docker using:

$ docker pull ledgersmb/ledgersmb:1.5.6

Alternatively. the release can be downloaded from sourceforge at
https://sourceforge.net/projects/ledger-smb/files/Releases/1.5.6/

These are the sha256 checksums of the uploaded files:
1d39afa8d372d60d8f831657414ae04d10b289bbc71e2942f870b112e0efa673
ledgersmb-1.5.6.tar.gz
9b8900e75e8edd722bd7e4433e5f0967dc84aa965d60a7683a11817b0737ad0f
ledgersmb-1.5.6.tar.gz.asc

--
Bye,

Erik.

http://efficito.com -- Hosted accounting and ERP.
Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in.

ledger-smb-users

2017-04-10 11:57:12 UTC

Permalink

Wow, docker!

Congratulations, I consider this one of the greatest improvements.
You could have mentioned that new feature in the changelog. :)

regards,
ario

On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 20:59:10 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
The LedgerSMB development team is happy to announce yet another new
version of its open source ERP and accounting application. This
Changelog for 1.5.6
- Fix syntax error in LaTeX templates for printed documents (Erik H)
- Refactor filter pages for income statement and balance sheet (Erik H)
- Fix reversal of payments against non-eca-default AR/AP account
(Erik H, #2558 <https://github.com/ledgersmb/LedgerSMB/issues/2558>)
Erik H is Erik Huelsmann
$ docker pull ledgersmb/ledgersmb:1.5.6
Alternatively. the release can be downloaded from sourceforge at
https://sourceforge.net/projects/ledger-smb/files/Releases/1.5.6/
1d39afa8d372d60d8f831657414ae04d10b289bbc71e2942f870b112e0efa673
ledgersmb-1.5.6.tar.gz
9b8900e75e8edd722bd7e4433e5f0967dc84aa965d60a7683a11817b0737ad0f
ledgersmb-1.5.6.tar.gz.asc

Erik Huelsmann

2017-04-10 18:20:50 UTC

Permalink

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:57 PM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
Wow, docker!

Yes! The easiest installation method we have available at the moment.

Post by ledger-smb-users
Congratulations, I consider this one of the greatest improvements.

Thank you. I've passed the message to the people doing the Docker job (it's
a project of its own). The docker developments have been ongoing for quite
some time, but with the 1.5.0 release a number of prerequisites in the
LedgerSMB code have been fulfilled moving the Docker image from
experimental to production level.

The LedgerSMB-docker project is a good example of how the LedgerSMB project
tries to form an eco-system (i.e. be more than just a single project):
People started the project to address their needs and because this is
exactly the bit they could contribute. We have adopted it as a means of
deployment and have been working to integrate the build of new docker
images into the release process.

Other on-going efforts to make installation of LedgerSMB less complex (than
the source installs documented in README.md) include the development of
Debian packages for Jessie and Stretch. We hope people who can contribute
packaging for other platforms will step up. We'd love to support the
efforts and (when the result is stable) integrate package building steps
(or triggers thereof) with the release process.

Post by ledger-smb-users
You could have mentioned that new feature in the changelog. :)

Well, it's not a feature delivered by the LedgerSMB project itself, but the
intent of mentioning it in the announcement mail was indeed to draw
attention to the eforts. I see we succeeded :-)

Will you be using Docker to run LedgerSMB?

Regards,

Erik.

Post by ledger-smb-users
On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 20:59:10 +0200

------------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ledger-smb-users

--
Bye,

Erik.

http://efficito.com -- Hosted accounting and ERP.
Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in.

ledger-smb-users

2017-04-11 00:54:27 UTC

Permalink

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 20:20:50 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
Will you be using Docker to run LedgerSMB?

No I won't: I don't run LedgerSMB anymore.

The 'trust breaking event' was some hundreds (or more) of
transactions mishandled because LSMB automatically marked
them for processing and 'assumed' my 'OK' when I tried to
leave that page, without any warning.

I would have had to delve deep into the caves of
PostgresQL to try to fix that, and because also the
inputting (lots of clicking, dropping down and typing) of
transactions makes the process too slow to my liking.

I found ledger-cli which stores everything in human-readable
text files and it has enough features for me.

And I found a rather quick way to input transactions on a
smartphone and am working now on a 'blazingly fast' way to
improve the speed (to reduce valuable time wasted on inputting).

There is also no interaction with taxing departments that have to
be lulled into believing that once a transaction is registered
it can not be altered anymore. ;)

My interest in following this list comes from the fact that I
learned accounting through LSMB, and am secretly hoping that
one day I read an announcement that it has
1. become 'blazingly fast' to input transactions as they are
performed during the day, i.e.: 'on the fly',
2. and therefore also works on smartphones.

Erik Huelsmann

2017-04-11 19:26:49 UTC

Permalink

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:54 AM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 20:20:50 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
Will you be using Docker to run LedgerSMB?

Yes. I'm aware of that. Your reaction triggered me to think you were going
to use it again as you were enthousiastic about the new possibility for
installation.

Post by ledger-smb-users
I would have had to delve deep into the caves of
PostgresQL to try to fix that, and because also the
inputting (lots of clicking, dropping down and typing) of
transactions makes the process too slow to my liking.
I found ledger-cli which stores everything in human-readable
text files and it has enough features for me.
And I found a rather quick way to input transactions on a
smartphone and am working now on a 'blazingly fast' way to
improve the speed (to reduce valuable time wasted on inputting).

I think every user of LedgerSMB would be tremendously interested in having
entry be "blazingly fast". Could you provide a bit more detail on how you
achieve the fast entry? Maybe the entry methods in LedgerSMB can be adaped
to allow it?

Post by ledger-smb-users
There is also no interaction with taxing departments that have to
be lulled into believing that once a transaction is registered
it can not be altered anymore. ;)

Assuming you have a company, don't you have to file taxes? If you don't
have a company, I'm very interested to learn why you keep books at all.

Post by ledger-smb-users
My interest in following this list comes from the fact that I
learned accounting through LSMB, and am secretly hoping that
one day I read an announcement that it has
1. become 'blazingly fast' to input transactions as they are
performed during the day, i.e.: 'on the fly',
2. and therefore also works on smartphones.

So far I think this is a matter of process, not of tooling. Is there
currently anything that's preventing you from doing this? I have actually
used LedgerSMB on a tablet; I'm thinking the small screen of a phone will
probably inhibit productive use of the UI in general (although I can
imagine specific use-cases where a dumbed-down UI would work pretty well
with mobile applications -- shipping and receiving comes to mind).

Again, I'm very interested to learn how you're solving the data entry
problem on your phone at this point; hoping there's something to be learned
for LedgerSMB.

--
Bye,

Erik.

http://efficito.com -- Hosted accounting and ERP.
Robust and Flexible. No vendor lock-in.

ledger-smb-users

2017-04-12 15:12:46 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

regarding 'blazingly fast', I'm still trying to set it up.
In essence I'll be trying to abuse the Memento Database UI's
template generating ability in that after reverse engineering
the format used by it, it could become possible to generate
one oneself.

The idea is to use the 'Radio Button' feature extensively,
rather than the concept of drop-down lists to select entries
for a field.

The table of accounts is in fact a structured list, which can
be translated into a general tree. From that tree, one can
generate a template for Radio Buttons which would mostly
result in a sequence of selections to go through with one's
thumb (on a smartphone).

Let me visualise this highly conceptual blabber a bit:

Assume the following accounts:

assets
assets:banks
assets:banks:Citi
assets:banks:Citi:savings
assets:banks:Citi:checking
assets:banks:Citi:ATM
assets:banks:AIG
assets:banks:AIG:savings
assets:banks:AIG:checking
assets:cash
assets:cash:me
assets:cash:me:wallet
assets:cash:me:wallet:USD
assets:cash:me:wallet:EUR
assets:cash:wife
assets:cash:wife:wallet
expenses
income
liabilities

etc.

Then, when entering an account to record a transaction in the field,
your smarphone presents you a set of buttons to touch:

.assets .expenses .income .liabilities

Assume you touch .assets with your thumb.
You'll then be presented the following:

.banks .cash

(If you had touched .expenses you'd seen something else.)
Assume you touch .cash, you'll see

.me .wife and choose: .me

Etcetera. For .expenses and all the rest you'll be presented
the relevant buttons for those choices and the following choices
you'll make.

I think that this way your accounts can be 'thumbed in' quite fast
withouth the trouble of scrolling through an extensive drop-down
list or moving around a keyboard.
Of course, if there's any new account you would have to enter that
completely.

In the same manner, the products that you buy can be entered.
Let's say you do some groceries, they can be structured as well:

.Delhaize .Carrefour .AH .Ikea

Touch .Carrefour:

.hardware .food .clothes (touch food)

.vegetables .fruit .starch-based .spices .gels (touch gels)

.jam .chutney .preserve .sambal... no, sambal is spices
(touch jam)

etc.
up to the packing and units:

.box .bottle .sachet (I know, you don't have this for beer)

(Grolsch beer): touch bottle

.300 ml .500 ml .1 l

No more typing, no more scrolling.

All this information can be obtained from previous purchases,
or entered as they are encountered for the first time.
The price from a previous 'encounter' can also be presented,
or re-entered if changed. The only thing you need the keyboard
then for is to type in the number of items bought, which will
probably default to 1 (or 12 in the case of beer :).

The nice thing about the Memento Database buttons is that they
can be made dependable on previously entered fields, so only
buttons that make sense are shown to choose from.

After a day or so, the whole table can be exported and
converted into the format readable by ledger.

I had planned to work on this the previous months when
something more urgent came up, but with some luck within
some time I could pick up where I left soon.

One other thing that put me off about LSMB was the time lost
for inputting data. Oh, and also the difficulties installing
it on other platforms than the primary supported ones, and as
a result the difficulties with the frequent upgrades which
required additional work. That's why I was excited to see
there's now a Docker container available.

regards

On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:26:49 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:54 AM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 20:20:50 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
Will you be using Docker to run LedgerSMB?

Yes. I'm aware of that. Your reaction triggered me to think you were
going to use it again as you were enthousiastic about the new
possibility for installation.

I think every user of LedgerSMB would be tremendously interested in
having entry be "blazingly fast". Could you provide a bit more detail
on how you achieve the fast entry? Maybe the entry methods in
LedgerSMB can be adaped to allow it?

Post by ledger-smb-users
There is also no interaction with taxing departments that have to
be lulled into believing that once a transaction is registered
it can not be altered anymore. ;)

Assuming you have a company, don't you have to file taxes? If you
don't have a company, I'm very interested to learn why you keep books
at all.

So far I think this is a matter of process, not of tooling. Is there
currently anything that's preventing you from doing this? I have
actually used LedgerSMB on a tablet; I'm thinking the small screen of
a phone will probably inhibit productive use of the UI in general
(although I can imagine specific use-cases where a dumbed-down UI
would work pretty well with mobile applications -- shipping and
receiving comes to mind).
Again, I'm very interested to learn how you're solving the data entry
problem on your phone at this point; hoping there's something to be
learned for LedgerSMB.

Chris Travers

2017-04-12 18:11:31 UTC

Permalink

Hi Ario

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:12 PM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
Hi,

I have been thinking about your complaint above and this email a bit. I
would guess that previously
that the problems you had were the result of difficulties using our web
interface. I think most people
on this list understand and appreciate that the web interface generally can
be improved and that
it is and needs to be a priority.

Post by ledger-smb-users
regarding 'blazingly fast', I'm still trying to set it up.
In essence I'll be trying to abuse the Memento Database UI's
template generating ability in that after reverse engineering
the format used by it, it could become possible to generate
one oneself.
The idea is to use the 'Radio Button' feature extensively,
rather than the concept of drop-down lists to select entries
for a field.

Ok so one of the things i have been working on lately has been a web
service wrapper around LedgerSMB. This is needed so we can write the user
interface separately from the state logic. As you have no doubt
discovered, a command line, a desktop app, and a mobile app have
differences in how they need to work and we need a better separation of
concerns to allow better mobile interfaces.

Post by ledger-smb-users
The table of accounts is in fact a structured list, which can
be translated into a general tree. From that tree, one can
generate a template for Radio Buttons which would mostly
result in a sequence of selections to go through with one's
thumb (on a smartphone).
assets
assets:banks
assets:banks:Citi
assets:banks:Citi:savings
assets:banks:Citi:checking
assets:banks:Citi:ATM
assets:banks:AIG
assets:banks:AIG:savings
assets:banks:AIG:checking
assets:cash
assets:cash:me
assets:cash:me:wallet
assets:cash:me:wallet:USD
assets:cash:me:wallet:EUR
assets:cash:wife
assets:cash:wife:wallet
expenses
income
liabilities
etc.
Then, when entering an account to record a transaction in the field,
.assets .expenses .income .liabilities
Assume you touch .assets with your thumb.
.banks .cash
(If you had touched .expenses you'd seen something else.)
Assume you touch .cash, you'll see
.me .wife and choose: .me
Etcetera. For .expenses and all the rest you'll be presented
the relevant buttons for those choices and the following choices
you'll make.
I think that this way your accounts can be 'thumbed in' quite fast
withouth the trouble of scrolling through an extensive drop-down
list or moving around a keyboard.
Of course, if there's any new account you would have to enter that
completely.

Ok so basically what you are doing is effectively navigating down the tree
of headings to the account using touches. Yeah, I could see that as a
useful way to go on mobile apps. Obviously it would be a mess on a desktop
web interface and make the interface frustrating and slow there. But
that's exactly what the focus on getting to a web services-oriented
framework ought to allow us to do.

Post by ledger-smb-users
In the same manner, the products that you buy can be entered.
.Delhaize .Carrefour .AH .Ikea
.hardware .food .clothes (touch food)
.vegetables .fruit .starch-based .spices .gels (touch gels)
.jam .chutney .preserve .sambal... no, sambal is spices
(touch jam)

Nice. Sambal. Indonesian/Malaysian food :-D.

But that reminds me of why partsgroups need to be hierarchical too.

Post by ledger-smb-users
etc.
.box .bottle .sachet (I know, you don't have this for beer)
(Grolsch beer): touch bottle
.300 ml .500 ml .1 l
No more typing, no more scrolling.
All this information can be obtained from previous purchases,
or entered as they are encountered for the first time.
The price from a previous 'encounter' can also be presented,
or re-entered if changed. The only thing you need the keyboard
then for is to type in the number of items bought, which will
probably default to 1 (or 12 in the case of beer :).

Interestingly it seems like we are moving in the direction of being able to
support the development of such interfaces. I don't know what they will
look like yet so I would be interested in a demonstration video when you
get this together if you can.

Post by ledger-smb-users
The nice thing about the Memento Database buttons is that they
can be made dependable on previously entered fields, so only
buttons that make sense are shown to choose from.
After a day or so, the whole table can be exported and
converted into the format readable by ledger.
I had planned to work on this the previous months when
something more urgent came up, but with some luck within
some time I could pick up where I left soon.
One other thing that put me off about LSMB was the time lost
for inputting data. Oh, and also the difficulties installing
it on other platforms than the primary supported ones, and as
a result the difficulties with the frequent upgrades which
required additional work. That's why I was excited to see
there's now a Docker container available.

Great. Hope the docker image is helpful for you :-)

Post by ledger-smb-users
regards
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:26:49 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:54 AM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 20:20:50 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
Will you be using Docker to run LedgerSMB?

Yes. I'm aware of that. Your reaction triggered me to think you were
going to use it again as you were enthousiastic about the new
possibility for installation.

I think every user of LedgerSMB would be tremendously interested in
having entry be "blazingly fast". Could you provide a bit more detail
on how you achieve the fast entry? Maybe the entry methods in
LedgerSMB can be adaped to allow it?

Post by ledger-smb-users
There is also no interaction with taxing departments that have to
be lulled into believing that once a transaction is registered
it can not be altered anymore. ;)

Assuming you have a company, don't you have to file taxes? If you
don't have a company, I'm very interested to learn why you keep books
at all.

So far I think this is a matter of process, not of tooling. Is there
currently anything that's preventing you from doing this? I have
actually used LedgerSMB on a tablet; I'm thinking the small screen of
a phone will probably inhibit productive use of the UI in general
(although I can imagine specific use-cases where a dumbed-down UI
would work pretty well with mobile applications -- shipping and
receiving comes to mind).
Again, I'm very interested to learn how you're solving the data entry
problem on your phone at this point; hoping there's something to be
learned for LedgerSMB.

--
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

Efficito: Hosted Accounting and ERP. Robust and Flexible. No vendor
lock-in.
http://www.efficito.com/learn_more

ledger-smb-users

2017-04-13 03:05:54 UTC

Permalink

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:11:31 +0200

Post by Chris Travers
Hi Ario
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:12 PM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
Hi,

I have been thinking about your complaint above and this email a
bit. I would guess that previously
that the problems you had were the result of difficulties using our
web interface. I think most people
on this list understand and appreciate that the web interface
generally can be improved and that
it is and needs to be a priority.

Please understand me well. I'm not complaining (anymore :).

At the time it happened I was quite irritated by the event,
but later understood that my decision to look for another
way was also pushed by the facts that
1. I don't need the full bucket of features LSMB offers,
2. Installing of and keeping up with upgrades wasn't funny,
3. Re-installing on anything else than debian was a torture,
4. Entering records was way too slow to my likings, but I didn't
know how to do it otherwise.
It's that Erik asked about it that I mentioned all this (again).
I highly appreciate the efforts you all have put in developing
LSMB and giving it away for free, and for the way you (and the
beancounter.com website) have taught me how to do accounting.

Post by Chris Travers

Ok so one of the things i have been working on lately has been a web
service wrapper around LedgerSMB. This is needed so we can write the
user interface separately from the state logic. As you have no doubt
discovered, a command line, a desktop app, and a mobile app have
differences in how they need to work and we need a better separation
of concerns to allow better mobile interfaces.

Ok so basically what you are doing is effectively navigating down the
tree of headings to the account using touches. Yeah, I could see
that as a useful way to go on mobile apps. Obviously it would be a
mess on a desktop web interface and make the interface frustrating
and slow there. But that's exactly what the focus on getting to a
web services-oriented framework ought to allow us to do.

Exactly, to do this with a mouse on a desktop would be quite
cumbersome, typing could be much faster, scrolling a drop-down
list too. But on a smartphone there is no mouse, typing is a
drag, but thumbing through a limited choice of buttons is very
fast.

Post by Chris Travers

Nice. Sambal. Indonesian/Malaysian food :-D.
But that reminds me of why partsgroups need to be hierarchical too.

Yes, luckily the parts groups that *I* am using were that already.

Post by Chris Travers

Interestingly it seems like we are moving in the direction of being
able to support the development of such interfaces. I don't know
what they will look like yet so I would be interested in a
demonstration video when you get this together if you can.

I was indeed thinking of just that, but first I'd have to get it
to work and find a screen recorder for my Jolla phone (which runs
Sailfish--which 'supports' Android in a way).

Post by Chris Travers

Great. Hope the docker image is helpful for you :-)

Sorry, I just was excited, although I don't use LSMB anymore.

best regards,

ario

Post by Chris Travers

Post by ledger-smb-users
regards
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:26:49 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:54 AM, ledger-smb-users <

Post by ledger-smb-users
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 20:20:50 +0200

Post by Erik Huelsmann
Will you be using Docker to run LedgerSMB?

Yes. I'm aware of that. Your reaction triggered me to think you
were going to use it again as you were enthousiastic about the new
possibility for installation.

I think every user of LedgerSMB would be tremendously interested
in having entry be "blazingly fast". Could you provide a bit more
detail on how you achieve the fast entry? Maybe the entry methods
in LedgerSMB can be adaped to allow it?

Post by ledger-smb-users
There is also no interaction with taxing departments that have
to be lulled into believing that once a transaction is
registered it can not be altered anymore. ;)

Assuming you have a company, don't you have to file taxes? If you
don't have a company, I'm very interested to learn why you keep
books at all.

So far I think this is a matter of process, not of tooling. Is
there currently anything that's preventing you from doing this? I
have actually used LedgerSMB on a tablet; I'm thinking the small
screen of a phone will probably inhibit productive use of the UI
in general (although I can imagine specific use-cases where a
dumbed-down UI would work pretty well with mobile applications --
shipping and receiving comes to mind).
Again, I'm very interested to learn how you're solving the data
entry problem on your phone at this point; hoping there's
something to be learned for LedgerSMB.